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An Interview With Natasha Vargas-Cooper

Natasha Vargas-Cooper is the author of the new book Mad Men Unbuttoned, which you should totally buy, and she writes The Footnotes of Mad Men blog. She is the Los Angeles correspondent for The Awl

Before we dive into anything too heavy-handed: Let’s discuss The Beatles! You’ve mentioned them in previous interviews, and we’ve been anxiously awaiting their arrival for about a year now. Assuming we see their influence this season—directly or indirectly—how will our pals in Sterling Cooper Draper Pryce react to the boys from Liverpool? I think who we really need to worry about is Sally Draper. She’s at the mercy of the cunning powers of rock n’ roll. I think maybe Pete and Peggy and Pryce (being one of the Queen’s subjects and all) could have their interests piqued by the foursome but I doubt they will make an impression on the rest, which could be at their own peril.

Switching media, there’s a whole section in Mad Men Unbuttoned about literature of the period. Of course, books have a wildly different impact than films and music and even fashion and food and, naturally, drink. Those cultural manifestations appeal to the aesthetic senses of the viewer, whereas when we see, say, Don mailing Anna an O’Hara book, that’s all it is—a book cover and a title. But when it comes to the characters, they are what they read. Was it different, then, to write about Betty reading a book than, say, Betty doing anything else? No silly! Don straight up reads the last stanza of Meditations in an Emergency while the orchestra swells! That’s up there with the David Chase black out finale of risky-ass moves made by a TV show. Busting out New York School poetry from the stoic ad-man? Incredible! I think TV writers are smart. Objects, from necklaces to books are chosen deliberately. Like a good novel, details reinforce themes. So what Betty reads in the tub or what Don’s book club of 1 reads tells so much about them.

Which critic or thinker—or plural!—was most influential in your understanding of the period as depicted on Mad Men? I cocooned myself from analysis of the era and stuck to primary documents: Oral accounts, memos, campaigns, movies, literature. But the two writers who helped me interpret all I was consuming were film critics Pauline Kael and David Thomson. I read a lot of Norman Mailer.

One of our favorite essays was the rumination on Paul Kinsey and his wonderful beard. So perhaps this is a question more suited for Matthew Weiner, but: If we do see Kinsey again, will he still have his whiskers? We better see Paul Kinsey again! He’s too well conceived to not reappear. I think Kinso will be the first to abandon slicking back his hair. I don’t want to go so far as to say shaggy but rat-pack slickness be gone!

Don’s memorable trip to California comprised two of our favorite episodes, both as guilty pleasures and as texts. In thinking about the relationship between the character and the setting—that the “poetry of constant reinvention” speaks to “Dick Whitman”—did it help at all for you to actually live in California? There is nothing to feel guilty about! Those are some of the most elegant episodes. Being from California helps everything I write. Los Angeles, more so than New York, defined the second half of the 20th century. It’s always been more populist than New York so being away from the dense, grey, Victorian cities of the east always helps when you wanna talk pop.

OK, instead of the obligatory blog-to-book-hey-look-at-that question, we’ll offer what we hope is a bit of a twist. Obviously, your book would be different from what it might have been in five or ten years, if only because the show’s arc isn’t complete. In terms of finality, it’s certainly different from a blog in that sense. Besides maintaining your website, do you have any plans to expand the book, eventually, or is it too soon to tell? If a publisher wants the book expanded then I can only oblige them! The format would remain the same the writing about previous objects would also be the same because they are tied to a precise moment, the context around them doesn’t change with plot twists, etc.

Interlude: The opening descriptions of the characters in Mad Men Unbuttoned may go unnoticed, but they shouldn’t be. Summing up these characters in one paragraph might be more difficult than writing full essays about them. This isn’t a question! Thanks!!!

Moving on. Season 3 offered some of our first hints of the lurking shadow of Vietnam. Given how much of the show is predicated, in part, on the effects of war—and we want to make note of Sterling’s time in Paris before the war, if only to reference that dinner scene with his ex-flame, Annabelle—do you expect to have to write more about it as you evaluate the next several seasons? I generally only write about what’s mentioned in the show otherwise it would be a forced, lame analysis. If something makes an impression on the character then sure! But, for instance, Afghanistan nary plays a role in my life. In fact, thanks to tax cuts it plays no role in my life! So if some one were to take the turmoil of Afghanistan and apply it to the psyche of my generation it be would disingenuous or just plain off. Not that Vietnam didn’t have an impact, obviously it transformed a generation, but clearly not in our tiny data sample.

The very first section of the book deals with advertising, so let’s get all meta here. Is the advertising campaign for Mad Men itself effective? Is advertising for Mad Men different than it would be for another show? Does Don Draper sell himself? I haven’t found the advertising to be that different from other beloved shows. It’s sophisticated and muted that’s for sure, so it’s true to the show and echoes the mood. I don’t think Don is the selling point of the show at this moment. Rarely have I heard a new convert say, ‘Eh, the show is not so great but I really like Don!” Don is one of the thornier aspects of the show.

And let’s wrap up with some quick-hitters. Favorite: Non-recurring character? Quotation? And, dun-dun-dun: episode? THIS IS LIKE SOPHIE’S CHOICCCCEEE

  • Rachel Menken
  • ”What I was like at that age. Paris before the war. Eating in cemeteries. People were jumping out of windows and we were on vacation.” —Anabelle
  • “I’m not gonna talk. I don’t want you to cut yourself” —Sally Draper
  • ”Why would you deny yourself something that you want?” —Joy
  • ”You know what? I’m very comfortable with my mind, thought clean and unclean, loving, and… the opposite of that. But I am not a woman. And I think it behooves any man to toss all female troubles into the hands of a stranger.” —Roger
  • ”Stop talking.” —Don to Bobbie in bed
  • Jet Set, Babylon, Love Among the Ruins
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